Wondering about the headband of vast intelligence...

kzwixkzwix
in d20PFSRD
The headband of vast intelligence or the similar items combining INT with WIS and/or CHA state that you do NOT get a retroactive skills improvement from the new bonus. Instead, you get new skills (one for each "+2" level), which appear with your Hit Dice ranks (and do NOT stack with previous levels in those skills), as soon as it becomes permanent. Ok, so far, so good.

If I remove the headband, I lose the associated skills, it seems logical (and I would go back to the ranks I previously had in those skills).


However, we wonder about what happens when you level up, AFTER you put the headband and it became permanent bonuses. I mean, the headband gives you more intelligence, meaning you get extra skill points per level. It doesn't say that the "bonus" skills level up automatically, nor that you have to put skill points in those skills so that their level matches your new Hit Dice number.

Suppose you put these skill points in other skills. If you then remove the headband, what do you lose exactly ?  The three "bound" skills are a no-brainer, but... do you lose skill points too ?  If so, how much ?

(Obviously, the underlying question is how much the item can be "abused" by putting it off and back on).

Comments

  • fernlovebondfernlovebond
    The text says "the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer’s total [HD]", not just HD at the time first worn. As the character gains HD, the equivalent ranks increase. There's no added ranks on top of the unenhanced number, those "extra" ranks for the higher mod are auto-assigned to the bonus skill(s).

    So, Selnak the level 10 arcanist gets a headband of vast int +4 (know[nature] & [religion]). Her int goes to 24, and her skill in those 2 knowledges are automatically treated as having 10 ranks. When she becomes level 11, she gains ranks = 2 (class) + 5 (unenhanced int mod) and one rank each in the headband's bonus skills, making their ranks = her new HD. No talking off and reequipping needed.

    Make sense?
  • kzwixkzwix
    Yeah, it does make sense, however, it doesn't state that the intelligence points do NOT grant bonus skills at later levels. It merely states that it isn't retroactive.

    That was the meaning of the question, as, else, it would have been easy to write that the bonus does NOT apply to the number of skill ranks obtained when leveling, as the ranks are already provided in the linked skills...

    So, yeah, it might be an oversight on the creators' part, but RaW, I still have my doubts :)
  • fernlovebondfernlovebond
    Well, you asked about abuse, so I guess I'm seeing it as an answer about that: I think it's design intent is to avoid exploitation, hence I described the handling I'd suggest to meet design intent. Do you, though
  • kzwixkzwix
    I did, and a lot of our players insist on RaW instead of RaI... hence my trying to find what it would do, RaW.

    But, yeah, I guess they intended it as you said - which makes the item kinda shitty, if you merely want more points to assign, without losing all previous investment in the skills which interest you. The Ioun Stones would probably be better suited in that case.
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